Posts by Giles Gray

54

Confession Time - Music You're Embarrassed to Admit Listening To

by Simon in

jw
friends

admit it, we all have things that we reel off when people ask what our favourite music is, just the same as if people ask what our favourite movies are.

we're meant to say "citizen kane" and "casablanca" and not "battleship" or "pacific rim" but we know what we're going to watch if they are ever on tv at the same time (and which ones we've never actually seen).. so how about some confession time?

what do you listen to when no one else is in the house?.

Giles Gray

@LUHE

You have my deepest sympathies.

54

Confession Time - Music You're Embarrassed to Admit Listening To

by Simon in

jw
friends

admit it, we all have things that we reel off when people ask what our favourite music is, just the same as if people ask what our favourite movies are.

we're meant to say "citizen kane" and "casablanca" and not "battleship" or "pacific rim" but we know what we're going to watch if they are ever on tv at the same time (and which ones we've never actually seen).. so how about some confession time?

what do you listen to when no one else is in the house?.

Giles Gray

https://youtu.be/FTI8CWSiZ40

I have to confess to really liking this song. (God I loath myself for admitting that). I even quite like the video... and at the same time I really hate it. I hate what Rich Clifford stands for but this song managed to make it through.

One of the reasons could be to do with the top end Naim Audio hifi I once purchased. I didn't have many Compact Discs at the time and so I borrowed my mother's Rich Clifford CD to see how good the recording quality was. The production was staggering. His other hit 'Carrie' also sounded amazing.

I've liked both songs ever since.

"Miserable man that I am... who can save me...?"

29

Activism works! Success!

by ZindagiNaMilegiDobaara in

jw
friends

want to keep as short as possible, if any questions just ask.. just this weekend gone, i had two visitors (pimi single bros).they came round for a visit and a long chat.they had so many questions now that they have woken.

they are planning their fading(??

), one is an ministerial servant .

Giles Gray

@ Zindang

Sounds like you've already been doing a splendid job so far already.

My only suggestion is to be meticulous about your information, making sure your points are truthful and accurate.

Apart from that... being your genuine self goes a long way too.

The very best of luck on helping these people.

79

Who really is the faithful and discreet* slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?

by Alex Williams in

this statement was answered in a form of a question to a question posed by one of his followers;.

jesus realized that composite slave had to qualify for such an appointment when he came into power of his kingdom promised by jehovah god.

[and they came to life and ruled as kings with the christ+ for 1,000 years].

Giles Gray

Alex Williams:-

" So World War I was a sign that the birth pains had begun. And nearly all historians agree that World War II was merely a continuation of World I.

So his presence began in 1914 his Kingdom began in 1914 and all the events depicted in Revelation began 1919 as well as appointing a Slave to fed his sheep"

Then... following on from the Slave's divine approval... let's examine the delights that the newly 'appointed Slave' fed its adherents/sheep:-

The Watchtower assured that Armageddon was going to happen before the end of the 20th century... right up until the new millennium, when that prophetic speculation failed to materialise.

The Watchtower's "CONCLUSIVE PROOF" that 'millions (of people) now living will never die' proved false because those people all died off.

The 'Generation that will by no means pass away' embarrassingly all passed away.

Since the end of World War II, mankind entered the most prosperous time in human history and we have continued to live beyond our ancestors' wildest dreams, contrary to the JWs prophetic expectations.

In fact, it's a verifiable fact that ever since the appointment of the Slave in 1919 (if one was to concede 1914 and 1919) not one prophetic speculation of the Watchtower has amounted to anything.

Their eschatology has proved to be a complete failure ever since Jesus' alleged approval, which pretty much renders the King of this kingdom rather impotent when it comes to his dealings with his appointed Slave. The Slave had better prophetic success before being appointed than anything they've predicted after they were under the direction of the Master.

It turns out that these alleged 'birth pangs' were nothing more than a misdiagnosis of severe trapped wind, which unfortunately blew out the light that was supposed to get brighter and brighter.

79

Who really is the faithful and discreet* slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?

by Alex Williams in

this statement was answered in a form of a question to a question posed by one of his followers;.

jesus realized that composite slave had to qualify for such an appointment when he came into power of his kingdom promised by jehovah god.

[and they came to life and ruled as kings with the christ+ for 1,000 years].

Giles Gray

Alex Williams:-

" The truth never EVER changes but the understanding of that truth has and will continue right to the END,

its like the bright morning light that grows brighter and brighter."

Loosely translated... "Jehovah's Witnesses are forced to alter their teachings every time the Watchtower's understandings prove to be nothing but vacuous, fictitious twaddle made up by deluded megalomaniacs."

88

For any that still believe in God and Jesus, what is your reasoning on this matter?

by BourneIdentity in

in the old testament, god was always full of anger and jealousy resulting in the murder of millions of people.

we’re told jesus perfectly reflects his fathers qualities.

why in the new testament does jesus show no hint of anger and jealousy and wanting to kill people?

Giles Gray

Onager- "I thought that the argument that I was responding to was that there is evidence for the existence of God and the first example is the eye witnesses who died as martyrs. I'm not sure what's really going on now..."

My sentiments exactly.Thanks for the clarification.

88

For any that still believe in God and Jesus, what is your reasoning on this matter?

by BourneIdentity in

in the old testament, god was always full of anger and jealousy resulting in the murder of millions of people.

we’re told jesus perfectly reflects his fathers qualities.

why in the new testament does jesus show no hint of anger and jealousy and wanting to kill people?

Giles Gray

Hello Onager.

Thanks for that link to Thomas Paine's book. His book is referred to regularly in many of the debates I've listened to. So an important book I'm sure.

You say:-

"... yes, that was what I was getting at. The bible is the work of men and it's god is a construction of those that wrote it and those that came after."

Thanks for your confirmation.

Please could you also clarify what you meant in your reply to TTWSYF on page 8 of this thread (3rd post down) when you say:-

" ...but I'm sorry you are wrong to say that there is evidence for the existence of the biblical god."

Am I correct in assuming that you also understood that TTWSYF's reference to the martyrdom of the apostles and the Christians who allegedly witnessed jesus' resurrection was one point of evidence that TTWSYF was using to prove the god of the bible exists?

Or have I misunderstood your post?

88

For any that still believe in God and Jesus, what is your reasoning on this matter?

by BourneIdentity in

in the old testament, god was always full of anger and jealousy resulting in the murder of millions of people.

we’re told jesus perfectly reflects his fathers qualities.

why in the new testament does jesus show no hint of anger and jealousy and wanting to kill people?

Giles Gray

Hello TTW.

I’d like to respond to your comment, but this quote of yours alters dramatically my position in our conversation, when you say:-

“So, I never said that the martyrdom of these witnesses proves that God and the bible are true.”

That is exactly the point I am arguing against. It is what I have understood from what you have written. (I believe it is also what Onager concluded as well)

If you are not making that assertion then our discussion is redundant.

I am merely responding to your post on page 6 (the second from last post on that page) of this thread and specifically your reply to Onager’s comment quoted below:-

Onager- “There is no evidence that the god of the bible exists. So you believe without evidence and call this faith.”

You respond to his point with the following:-

TTWSYF- “Respectfully, although you are right as far as each of us are not witness to personal and profound intimate communication / revelation with God, there is still a large amount of evidence. One example of evidence could be the way the apostles and 90% of the early Christian leaders were tortured to death is evidence. Why die for a lie? To what end?”

(please see the original comment for the full exchange in context as I have only quoted the relevant portions of your post)

I understood your response to Onager’s point to mean that you believe the martyrdom of those early Christians who witnessed Jesus’ resurrection was one piece of evidence that upholds that the god of the bible exists.

Perhaps you could elucidate further on exactly what you meant in your response to Onager on page 6 before I respond, just in case we are talking at cross purposes.

88

For any that still believe in God and Jesus, what is your reasoning on this matter?

by BourneIdentity in

in the old testament, god was always full of anger and jealousy resulting in the murder of millions of people.

we’re told jesus perfectly reflects his fathers qualities.

why in the new testament does jesus show no hint of anger and jealousy and wanting to kill people?

Giles Gray

Hello TTWSYF

Thanks for getting back so soon.

You say:-

“Frankly, though, if one cannot see the difference between on being martyred for ones beliefs as opposed to being martyred for what YOU witnessed, then I am only wasting typing time here.”

I’m not actually arguing against your point above. I agree that there would be a profound difference between the two positions. A first hand account is about the best evidence one could get. So I’m more than happy to concede that point.

However, this distinction still doesn’t help substantiate your original claim… that the manner of their martyrdom proves that God and the bible are true.

This is easily illustrated by using syllogisms. So lets start with what I believe is your proposition (please correct me if I have misrepresented you or if you would like to amend either of the premises or the conclusion):-

Premise 1: The apostles and hundreds of other people witnessed first hand Jesus being resurrected and, as a result, went on to die horrific deaths as martyrs because of the conviction of what they had seen.

Premise 2: ONLY people with the conviction of firsthand experiences would ever allow themselves to suffer such horrific martyrdom.

Conclusion: The ONLY explanation for these people allowing themselves to die in such a manner would be if Jesus had actually risen, therefore the god of the bible exists.

Is this a fair representation of your argument?

88

For any that still believe in God and Jesus, what is your reasoning on this matter?

by BourneIdentity in

in the old testament, god was always full of anger and jealousy resulting in the murder of millions of people.

we’re told jesus perfectly reflects his fathers qualities.

why in the new testament does jesus show no hint of anger and jealousy and wanting to kill people?

Giles Gray

Hello TTWSYF.

Thanks for your response.

You say:-

" Just saw your post. Will address all of your questions in the next few days or less. I won't have time to effectively answer each one now."

That's no problem. There's no rush.

I will refrain from responding to your latest comment until you've had time to address the other points you would like to answer.